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Subject: Re: Moulder blanks for glue ups

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Message Thread:

Moulder blanks for glue ups

3/11/17       
Jason  Member

Hello everyone,
I'm currently having problems with glue failure on my glued up stair treads. What is the correct way. I'm making a s4s out of moulder then glueing it up into a stair tread. I was wondering is the moulder finish to smooth for the titebond two to bond to ? Should i put through widebelt to rough up edges to get the glue to bit better. What is the correct order for this process ? Thanks

3/11/17       #2: Moulder blanks for glue ups ...
David R Sochar

You will find some good discussion of glue failure in the archives and Knowledge Base here on Woodweb.

My first thought for your failure is dull knives. You can put a drop of water on a freshly made surface and watch how long it takes to spread out. Long time means the knives are dull and 'glazing' the surface. Sharp knives will allow the water to enter the wood easily and quickly. Makes sense once you see it. The KB will have this info in more detail.

You can also send an example of the failure to your glue vendor and get a professional opinion.

Another thing I have learned recently is that the 'fresher' the surface, the better it will glue. Hours are much better than days.

3/11/17       #3: Moulder blanks for glue ups ...
JR Rutter

David is right. I would suspect knives first.

Widebelt could be problematic depending on the setup. With a rubber drum or soft platen, you could end up with slightly convex edges.

3/11/17       #4: Moulder blanks for glue ups ...
Mark Elliott Member

Jason,

The best edge prep for an edge glued panel is a ripped edge coming off of a SLR or a gang rip saw with good glue line rip blades.

Must faster then a moulder also.

3/11/17       #5: Moulder blanks for glue ups ...
Jason  Member

Thank you everone. Sounds like a good SLR saw will be the answer . I already was looking at new ones cantek or extrema or ironwood from stiles ? They all look like they are coming out of the same plant in tawain . Does anybody have preferance on which one to buy and why ?

3/13/17       #6: Moulder blanks for glue ups ...
Jerry Cunningham

I don't make panels anymore, but when I did I used the moulder to prep the blanks for edge glue as my input lumber was already ripped to width (not glue line) and I needed to make the staves all the same width.

Use a spiral insert head instead of a straight knife head. They tend to give a bi more of an "imperfect" finish that makes for a good gluing surface.

3/13/17       #7: Moulder blanks for glue ups ...
Adam

I agree with the other guys. Sounds like you've got dull knives. They beat the wood smooth versus cut smooth. Its like trying to glue two sheets of plastic together.

3/13/17       #8: Moulder blanks for glue ups ...
JR Rutter

We rarely get a sliver kick back, but even with multiple rows of pawls, a few have managed to slip past and embed themselves in the overhead door in front of the saw. So I would get one with as much anti-kickback protection as possible.

3/14/17       #9: Moulder blanks for glue ups ...
David Rankin

When I prepare material to glue on a moulder, I will generally run the feed a little faster than I would for a high quality finish. for a machine with 6000 rpm spindles I run the feed around 45-50fpm. This creates a slightly rougher finish that seems to help the glue penetrate the material better.

Depending upon the type of glue, you may need to use a better grade of knife steel to cut the finished product after the glue sets. Many companies use carbide while others use DGK knife steel. Using regular HSS can produce nick lines where the glue lines are.

Be Safe,

Dr. David Rankin

http://http://www.moulderservices.com/DGK-Coated-Knife-Steel-5-16-s/65.htm

3/28/17       #10: Moulder blanks for glue ups ...
David Waldmann  Member

Website: vermonthardwoods.com

Maybe I don't have the back story, but I don't understand why a moulder is being used to prepare material for gluing panels.

Typically, moulders are used to prepare a (close to) finished product. The setup time and level of surface preparation tend to be overkill for glue-line level work.

Not to say it can't work, or that for some strange one-off project it's not the best, but it would be near the end of my list of "ways to prepare blanks for gluing into panels"...

 

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