Post a Response Subscribe Guidelines

Cabinet and Millwork Installation

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Post a Response
The staff at WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at any WOODWEB Forum. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk.
Your Name:
Your Website:
Email Address:
Subject: Re: bad crown miters

Message:
(read message guidelines).
Note: Do not use the below fields to advertise your business - only for links related to the discussion.
Thread Related Link URL:
Thread Related Link Title:
  To "point" to an image (picture) from another website, provide the URL (Web Address) of the file ( include ONE reference to http:// )
Thread Related Image URL:

Date of your Birth:

Upload a Thread Related File:
File Types: Image (gif-jpg-png-bmp), PDF, Sketchup, Video (mov avi wmv mpeg mpg mp4 ogg). (Image Upload Tips)

I have read the Site User Agreement and agree with the Terms
  <= Check to receive e-mail notification of responses

Message Thread:

bad crown miters

12/9/13       
Tony

I run a small custom shop that specializes in residential cabinetry. We do on occasion install moulding as a side job when we need the work but trim work is not one of our normal specialties. However, I have a lady who has been an excellent repeat customer over the years and she has asked us to come and look at the crown (5-5 1/2?) she had installed by a local "carpenter". It is wide painted crown and suffice it to say the quality of the installation leaves a lot to be desired. The corners are coming apart and of course are not 45 miters that fit but were just close and filled with caulk. I would like to help her out if at all possible but don't want to get involved with removing all the crown in the whole house and re-installing; neither she nor I can afford to do this. All that said-can anyone offer suggestions? I originally thought about stop/transition blocks I have seen but this won't work where the crown now wraps around wall returns, etc. Could one possibly try gluing in slivers of matching crown that would fill the gaps at the miters and then filling/painting? Just looking at options that will make it look presentable on 10' ceilings without having to remove, finish new, and re-install properly.

12/9/13       #2: bad crown miters ...
mark

If you could make a jig to cut a consistent 1/4" (maybe less) out of the corners, and glue in the filler pieces, then it could work. Sounds like a job for an oscillating saw. Sand it fair. Fiddly work: time and materials.

12/9/13       #3: bad crown miters ...
Bruce H

As a painted crown the only limitation to making it work is time, ability and money. You could use nails, staples, glue and/or bondo to "fix" the appearance of the joint and re-paint. if it were a natural wood finish it would be a lot harder to fix without seeing the patch. Be easier and cost less if the original installer had done it right but...

12/9/13       #4: bad crown miters ...
Tony

Bruce-yeah it would have been nice but it was a little beyond the skill level of their "carpenter". That said-I like the bondo idea. I have used bondo as a filler in certain applications but didn't think of it here. I had decided the route to go was to fill and mold the bad miters into nice, crisp corners then sand and paint. I just couldn't think what to use.

12/10/13       #5: bad crown miters ...
Larry

Crown is normally coped, not mitered! Miters almost always show fit problems down the road.

12/10/13       #6: bad crown miters ...
jt

sweet outside cope dude!

12/12/13       #7: bad crown miters ...
Tony

Ok. If I had done the crown to begin with it would have been coped. That said, I don't know how that would help ugly outside corners, lol

12/14/13       #8: bad crown miters ...
mastercabman

On my outside miter I use wood glue and spring miter clamps.
I leave them until the glue dries then I like to use Timbermate
It's a water based putty that dries hard does not crack/shrink.It cleans up with water.
You can sand it or smooth it with a wet rag.Then just paint.
They offer different wood color that takes stain very well
Use of sand paper/file will make those corners look good

12/15/13       #9: bad crown miters ...
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

For the outside miters that are open. Clean out the caulk. Strip/sand the paint off. Use West system Six10 epoxy to fill in the gaps. Over fill it a bit. After a day or two sand the shape back into the epoxy to match the crown.

The epoxy is thick and will not run. It is great at filling gaps.

The epoxy is structural and if you get good adhesion in the joint it will never let go.

Six10 Epoxy

12/17/13       #10: bad crown miters ...
joiner Member

Lots of product promotion here. How about a real, tight fitted outside miter, and a real, tight fitted inside cope??????
Works with all woods and finishes.

12/18/13       #11: bad crown miters ...
Tony

Joiner-If you read the posts again, you will see that I didn't do the crown to begin with and am trying to fix a mess that someone else made. Yes, proper installation WOULD have been nice! I KNOW that tight outside miters and coped inside corners are the way to do it!!

12/18/13       #12: bad crown miters ...
Jim Baldwin  Member

Website: http://www.handrailer.com

I read the whole post and I think Joiner is making a valid point...

The fact that you're asking how to fix some other dudes screw-up tells me that this lady might be throwing good money after bad. Why don't you stick to your quality cabinet work and let the painter/finisher daub on whatever he does.

If you really want to play with Playdough then I recommend good 'ol Bondo at a fraction of the cost of any West Systems shinola.

12/18/13       #13: bad crown miters ...
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

Bondo is not an adhesive. It will fail and crack. The epoxy will hold those miters together and fill all the gaps and you'll never have to worry about it.

12/24/13       #14: bad crown miters ...
Mark  Member

Tony, I feel your pain man; I'm on another type of "please save this" job myself right now.
Any filler- from carpenters filler to Bondo- will crack out after a while. Even epoxy (or the wood itself) will crack on at least one side of a joint as it won't expand /contract with the seasonal movements.
I've been asked to clean up work like this in the past and I've approached it with cutting back and splicing in new pieces when the joinery was so buggered I couldn't do anything with it; using a couple applications of one of the "superstretch" caulks and using the aforementioned West System (or other) epoxies with a sandable filler added.
It's making a cookie out of a cat turd, but it's worth it to keep a good customer happy. Good luck.

12/25/13       #15: bad crown miters ...
Tony

Mark-thanks for the response. Just as a matter of professional pride-everyone please keep in mind that I WAS NOT the one who originally did this installation and am just trying to help out an elderly former customer who kinda got the shaft. Merry Christmas!

12/26/13       #16: bad crown miters ...
Jeff Guild  Member

1/4 gaps are hard to fill and profile after the fact. Each corner done correctly would take about 20 to 30 minutes and in a square room it takes about an hour to install crown. If you charged by to hour the cost would be about the same. My thought would be take down the long walls and reuse them on shorter walls. Pull the nails though the back side so you don't damage the front or hit a nail on the saw. This also depends how many nails the installer used, if they hit the studs and ceiling joists, is the crown made of mdf or poplar.

Then only buy and finish a few pieces for the high visibility areas. Make the best of a bad situation.

1/4/14       #17: bad crown miters ...
michael moore

I have been in this situation before. I had to fix some, erm, craftsmen's work that the customer didn't want to completely replace. The other posters are right about bondo and epoxy cracking. One thing that I found helped a lot was to clean any caulk or glue from the joint, and shoot plenty of 23 gauge pins through both sides of the outside miter, at a variety of distances from the tip of the miter inwards. Push the epoxy or bondo you apply into the pins. They support the filler like rebar in concrete and greatly reduce later cracking.

1/4/14       #18: bad crown miters ...
Leo G

The west system will not crack, pretty much guarantee it.

2/21/22       #19: bad crown miters ...
Connor Johnson Member

You could use nails, staples, glue and/or bondo to "fix" the appearance of the joint and re-paint.

 

Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)



    • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Related Information:

    Product Directory
    Knowledge Base: Cabinet Installation

    Recent Threads at all Forums