Message Thread:
Expiration Date of Finishes
8/17/18
Greetings –
Due to unforeseen circumstances – Life – finish I bought what seems to be recently is now close to its expiration date. I have some opened and unopened gallons of Target polyurethane and I’m wondering if anyone knows or suspects what valued properties (of the finish) will not be present when applied. Does “old” finish not adhere, does it not cure, does it not live up to its hardened finish properties? I must admit, I lived through the era of Kodak film expiration dates, and know there is some latitude with expiration dates of product well cared for.
Thoughts??
Thanks!!!
8/17/18 #2: Expiration Date of Finishes ...
I'd contact Jeff Weiss, the owner, and ask him. He's honest about what to expect.
8/17/18 #3: Expiration Date of Finishes ...
Paul.....For what it's worth, I've had some very old TARGET 6000, 8000 & some 9000 series well over a few yrs old ( say up to 3 to 5 yr old, truly !!) and gave me same ( or very close to) results as what I can see & compared to when new !....
One major diff you'll notice by measuring, is the viscosity through a cup measure, say like a common FORD cup 4.
Old TARGET will be "thinner", much thinner for some reason ( back in those days, even JEFF, owner of target admired this to me..., but, in my many attempts to get rid of remaining stuff vs trashing it, I had ( I emphasis on "I"....) had no issue on
- Adhesion
- Cure
- Must adjust spray gun flow
- Personally, new or old, "I" ( and my customer neither!!) never much appreciated the "Harding" or say durability of any TARGET prods....
SO, in a nut shell, in my experience with it ( over 5yr on target various applications), aside adjusting since it has "thinning" , go with applying what you have.....if you like the TARGET stuff....., but I....and I fell this can open a can of worms, try going with another " euro style" WB lacquer, or even say a WB conversion from Valspar....from those, then you'll witness & see what a true hard durable WB finish is.....they outclasses by way far Target like u would not imagine if not tried !!
My 2cts....
Cheers and all the best
8/17/18 #4: Expiration Date of Finishes ...
Robert,
Can you comment specifically on what finish you are comparing to Target as a "true" WB finish?
I dont ask this as a defense of Target, I think they have great product. We have sprayed a lot of the 9300 Polycarbonate and for a single part finish its been as good as any pre-cat or WB poly we've used.
We are now spraying MLC 2K Waterborne which is in an entirely different class and is amazingly bulletproof and the build is impressive (for us). We just got a gallon of the new Magnamax H20 as a sample but havent sprayed any yet. Im wondering if its just the old Aqualente Plus with some amber dye in it lol..
We've sprayed several waterbornes over the past 10+ years and are always looking.
To the OP, we have had the occasion to pick up material from our vendors that are extremely close to the "must be used by" date on the can. Ive always assumed that is a very conservative timeline put on the material by the manufacturer to protect themselves which I cant blame them for.
My perspective on this would be, a gallon or a partial gallon of finish is a trivial portion of the cost of a job and its a zit on your butt as compared to what it would cost you to have to eat/repair/replace a batch of work due to a finish issue. Perhaps burn it up on some drawer boxes, or case interiors, somewhere that finish quality isnt really all that critical, but even $100/gal material isnt worth risking the cost to fix and even moreso the cost to your reputation, so I would just use it on non critical areas or ditch it.
Peace of mind and a good nights sleep are very valuable.
8/17/18 #5: Expiration Date of Finishes ...
I have to 2nd what Mark B said. This is like the people who have you smell a steak that's been sitting on the counter a LITTLE TOO LONG, and they ask, "does this smell alright?"... my answer is always, If you have to ask, throw it away. It's not worth getting sick over. I'll go buy another steak for 15 bucks. If you are really questioning whether a finish is too old, it's probably not worth it to roll the dice on it. If it has a problem down the road, you're gonig to kick yourself for not spending another 90 bucks for a fresh gallon. It might be totally fine, but why risk it.
8/17/18 #6: Expiration Date of Finishes ...
TGIF - I appreciate all the information and especially the reality check(s) on the risk to craft and reputation. Jeff has always been available and helpful - though I miss the forum. I can certainly find behind the scenes areas to spray the suspect old topcoat - good idea. I have a decade plus experience with Target products, have tried others but come back for their appearance and tactile qualities.
A buddy has reported good quality results from an Old Master product called Master Armor - a WB poly.
Thanks again for all the input.
8/23/18 #7: Expiration Date of Finishes ...
My experience with 2K poly (which admittedly is "modest", I've sprayed a few brands here and there)----- and also my experience with a LOT of conversion varnish--
The expiration dates are always a "CYA" date by the manufacturer. If you aren't beyond it's expiration date, but only "close", then it's not outdated. Use it.
The exception, especially with 2K poly catalyst, but also true of any liquid--- if you open the can and find a bunch of solidified crap in it, then discard it.
But if the "stuff in the bottom" is just settled colorant, and everything looks nice and fluid after you shake it, use it. If it cures within spec, it's OK
Note, I'm not talking about stuff thats YEARS beyond it's "use by" date. I wouldn't trust that.
I'm talking about stuff that's close to the use-by date, maybe up to a year beyond it.
8/27/18 #8: Expiration Date of Finishes ...
The expiry date is just a best before date like dairy products. It doesn’t mean it goes bad. If it has been opened and used a few times it will not last as long as an unopened can.
Just like milk goes chunky and separates so do finishes, usually by looking at it you can tell if it is good or not. When it goes creamy or separates I would not use it. But if it looks normal and had the consistency and flow of a good product I don’t even look at the date on it.
As for water base probably the best I have ever sprayed is sayerlack.
8/28/18 #9: Expiration Date of Finishes ...
The expiry date is just a best before date like dairy products. It doesn’t mean it goes bad. If it has been opened and used a few times it will not last as long as an unopened can.
Just like milk goes chunky and separates so do finishes, usually by looking at it you can tell if it is good or not. When it goes creamy or separates I would not use it. But if it looks normal and had the consistency and flow of a good product I don’t even look at the date on it.
As for water base probably the best I have ever sprayed is sayerlack.
9/11/18 #10: Expiration Date of Finishes ...
Looking for a good WB, try Sherwin Williams Sayerlack, I have sprayed closed to 1000 gallons of this finish, with 0 issues
|