I know this subject has come up before in various incantations and as parts of other posts. I havent gone to the extent of not allowed to carry phones in the shop it has come up in conversation elsewhere and Im currently in the situation where a couple in the shop are constantly standing there waiting for a part to come out of the planer, or sander, or any other few seconds of "well Im just standing here" time and they are whipping their phone out, clearly leafing through, trying to quickly respond, whatever, before the part comes off. Of course there is no consideration to support, sound of the machine, attention to the process, its just the mindless feed/tail world.

I dont like letting things fester and try to nip them in the bud very early and started mention, having short conversation, and even taking aside, with regards to staying attentive to the work and the task at hand.

While I have no way ethically to prove this, this has now morphed into clearly far more, and far longer, bathroom breaks. Im trying to check my paranoia, but Ive been around the block enough times to know that rather than hear someone giving them grief with regards to pulling out their phone they are now feeling the "vibe" in their pocket and going to the bathroom when there is no need, and....

Small shop with a one-holer so there is no chance to walk in though I have most definitely thought of the investment into a multi-hole-er but that wouldnt solve someone sitting in a single stall with the partition closed.

Im pretty much at the point of no phones on the floor but wondering how other shops, big or small, deal with it.

P.S. I am not in a market with a type of work, or access to a waiting list of people to come to work, where I can just shuttle them out the door and replace them. Well covered here the cost to get someone on-line and then when you get one that at least shows up somewhat on-time, its difficult to just hire and fire with reckless abandon.

MarkB:

You might address it to them as the adults that they supposedly are, and point out that phone access during working hours should be limited to emergencies, and that you are paying them to work, and not spend every idle moment with their online fidget spinner.

Perhaps a minor ultimatum that would ban phones altogether if they could not collectively abide by this notion.

Not to sound like the old fart that I am, but I spent decades where the only phone in the shop was screwed to the wall. I got a mobile phone when I had my own business, and even then, limited its use to clients, thanks to the beauty of caller ID. Plus, all of these phones come with voice mail.

If your employees leave because of this, it is an insight into their value system, and I would love to be a fly on the wall at their next job interview. "Yea, man, I left because he wouldn't let me use the phone."

By way of transposition, imagine yourself with a potential hire who told you that was the reason that he left his previous employer.

Anything that happens enough times to piss you off will happen at least once more. Perhaps an addendum to your employment agreement is in order.

For what its worth, I watched my HVAC contractor fire his helper on the spot after being told repeatedly not to use his phone during work hours.

After all, it is your shop, not theirs.

For what its worth.
TonyF

I look at it from a different angle.
Workers need to get a certain amount of work done in a day or portion of the day if doing multiple assignments. They know what the standard is and are responsible for hitting and exceeding the targets. If they go into the bathroom and use their phone, I don't get upset about that. I get upset about them not hitting their production numbers. This way I am focusing on the amount of work, not trying to limit what they can do. Also, if I focus on amount of work and they don't meet their goal, we have something to talk about. Phone usage may be included in that discussion.

I focus on what I can track. I will not be the person who is tracking what people are doing in the bathroom.

I would work hard to eliminate the possibility of standing time, waiting on parts. Bad enough, worker has dead time. If off bearing, he should have his hands full.

If that is not possible, then you get to be the bad guy and have the phones put into a box at the door into the shop. If there is an emergency in the 2 hours from break to lunch, they can be angry at you. Of course, most emergencies are not really.

And when all else fails - Tailboy! I went to my first AWFS fair in Louisville in 1972 and saw the Tailboy at work. I realized that it could replace me in some instances. It made me a better woodworker as a result.

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Thanks guys,
I have no desire to be the guy tracking what people are doing in the bathrooms either. The timeline/assignments is great and makes total sense however a lot of day to day work in my shop isnt completely sheeted out like that though its great advice and surely something to aim for.

As I mentioned, its been addressed progressively and while it'd be great to escort them to the door after repeated mentions no new to anyone its very difficult and costly to just move them along. I would be more prone to that if there were a list of eager workers but in this area even a round of indeed or any other service will not attract much at all.

We run quite a bit as you mention David, no time to pause/endless board, but its never every minute of the day.

Ive just made it clear repeatedly that its an issue, which it has been curtailed "in the shop" however I think its pretty clear that its been moved to a location that no decent individual (in my opinion) can really comment on. If someone is hitting the bathroom a lot is it x, y, z,.. who knows. I typically trust my gut and my gut has been telling me to just knock out some lockers and the phones go in when you show up and come out at break and lunch only.

I too spent a lot of time in my youth in places with a secretary and phones where "dial 9 for an outside line" was disabled other than in authorized areas. If there was an emergency someone called into the business and the operator tracked you down or got you on the phone. Ive heard the "Im not being without my phone incase theres an emergency at home". They can call my phone or a supervisor phone and get to anyone just as quickly.

Thanks for the input.

David Sochar:

My first job in my first millwork shop in the early 70's was to stand behind a chain drive straight-line saw, stack sawn parts and feed lumber back to the saw operator. On days of large molder runs, the waste from the constant ripping would be such that I was standing on a pile of sticks almost as tall as the Deihl ripsaw table, as I would get yelled at for stopping to saw up the waste. The "Tailboy" would have made me an unemployment statistic at the time. Probably the only reason the shop owner didn't get one is that cheap labor like me ($1.90 per hour) was much less expensive than a new saw.

Puzzleman:

I agree with your sentiment to a point. If the work got done, would you allow your employees to go home with a day's pay, or work on side projects while on the clock?

Would you consider piecework wages, and be oblivious to the work ethic of your employess, being results driven?

I have no idea what type of work you do, and if the quantification of sufficient production for one day equals x number of boxes assembled, or is it more of a guess that you have gotten a day's worth of work out of your employees.

Just curious.
TonyF

Similar take-away's here. I wish (well actually I dont wish) I were an operation with the square footage and the through-put to run things like tailboy's, return conveyors, waste grinders where you dont even fool with a half sheet off the CNC you just grind it up to the dumpster. I dont have the footage, I dont have the $$ throughput. So while it makes complete mathematical sense its just not in the cards and given being 53 and 30+ in the trade, it likely wont be.

Sheeted individual throughput for the day is a similar take-away. If you need xyz out of an employee in an 8 hour shift your going to fill that shift (or slightly overfill it). If you output a list for the day and the individual knocks it out in 6 hours and goofs off for 2 your going to increase the list or hopefully pray you have a guy that either finds productive work to do or asks for more.

Understood these two dovetail between Puzzle and Davids joint notion of burry them so there is never time to take a break other than those allowed. Also understood even at times one guy feeding a sander with wide/slow stuff its like watching paint dry, but there is always something other than the phone to be done. No different than the guy going on mental void feeding the bander (about the most mundane process). Part of management (failure) on my part, though I am always covering the fact that the area around the sander can be swept, picked up, blown down, whatever. Never walk from one end of the shop to the other empty handed, there is always something to be picked up off the floor, returned to the other end of the shop, brought from the other end of the shop. And trying to shuffle work around so #1 there is variety in peoples day, and #2 there is overlap in capability.

No delusion that no one is going to approach the shop with the thought the owner is. Its the one in a million every small shop searches for their whole career.

I find the phone situation to be horrendous everywhere. I walked onto a site a few months ago and 4-5 guys out of 7 or 8 workers were standing there on the phone. And I've also seen more than a few talking on hands free devices while working- how can they concentrate on what they're doing. And what really sets me off is contractors who try to run their crews via cell phone.
Long bathroom breaks? Yeah, they're on the phone. Use to be they were smoking various substances....
It's your shop, but what I say is this- unless someone in their immediate family is ill, in the hospital or theres very young children at home, phones are not allowed on the floor. They can be left in a car. And if they do have to be available for emergency contact, in the pocket, ringer off, vibrate on.

Hello Tony.

I am different than everyone here in my product. I make puzzle stools.

We have production standards for quality and quantity. Every morning we discuss what is to be done that day in each department and then after lunch we spend no more than 5 minutes updating everyone on where each department is at to their daily goal.

People don't leave early but they do slack off during the day or at the end of the day . However, the work that I need done that day is to be done or the next day they have to tell everyone why they didn't get their assignment completed. Then they have to explain what they are going to do differently so as to get it all done. I do help in their department that day to get them caught back up. They don't like to have me work with them in their area, so it is like a punishment.

Hello all, what a discussion. Maybe I am an "Old Fart" but I have been around for a number of years. When I was younger, you worked for the man for my money. I was a mechanic for a very large electrical company. We covered from just east of Houston to the Florida state line. When I found there was nothing to "work" on, I was required to....sweep, clean windows, bathrooms or whatever the "man" wanted me to do. I was a high payed toilet cleaner during idle time. If my wife needed to call me for an emergency she had to call the office and they would come find me. (no cell phones in existence then) The point is...I hire an individual not to do a specific job only but to work for me. I pay him or her to work 8 hours a day. If the job is done in 7 hours and 30 minutes and I am paying him or her for 8 hours then he or she owes me another 30 minutes. This is what working is all about. I agree to work for "company" for 8 hours for "x" dollars. Just because I have finished a task or have down time does not mean I can do what I want. Sorry for the rant but I remember when a man "WORKED" for his pay. I was a union mechanic cleaning toilets during slow times and was happy to have a job. Why should I (as an owner) feel like I should have to pay someone to check emails or chat on the phone?

To me the more interesting part of the conversation that seems to be happening everywhere is the unfortunate need to have to learn how to manage these generations or how to adjust your management to suit them. I dont like hearing myself sound like some old grump I never thought I would be but my S.O. and many others I know in the corporate and government sectors are having formal management training, webinars, and so on, specifically addressing how to manage the younger generations. Sadly several people I have had conversations with about this very subject have said the general consensus around the subject is that if you refuse to adjust your management you will likely be working alone in very short order and exponentially more so in the future.

Ive never been an ultra hard a## though I am very direct. But when I apprenticed in the trades it was pretty brutal. Brutal enough that if you saw it happening to someone else you made darn sure you were never on the wrong side of that conversation. That doesnt fly anymore and honestly many of the younger people I have had working can be told, reprimanded, embarrassed themselves by making ridiculous stupid mistakes, and they really just dont care. It doesnt phase them. It can often times even be laughed off.

I have to get out of this thread; I just caught myself going into a full bore foaming at the mouth rant

Set standards and adhere to them. They have to be written out and they make great management tools

https://youtu.be/aa9RypDuehc

Its being distracted not having your mind on the job .Most of the time theses tools are dangerous .

Personally I have no watches and rings just recently started handing out the cell phone number

Forgot the argument of cell phones cut into production make it safety period.

Also people have become addicted to phone been in meeting with electricians and plumber , phone ring they answer and let people watch them wtf.

As a 30 year old, I agree it is unfortunate that my generation is so glued to our phones and Kevin makes a great point, doing anything besides paying close attention when a part is coming off the machine is dangerous. Like many have said, your shop, your rules. As a millennial I certainly would never leave a good shop because I had to put my phone away during the day.

That being said, I have a specific story I will share it in case you find it useful when crafting your approach to limiting phone usage. Several years ago, my then-boss pulled me aside and told me "[my] bathroom time was excessive." I will not give my full medical history, but suffice it to say when I was in the bathroom, I was using the bathroom. My initial reaction was horrified embarrassment. If he thought I was using my phone, I would have greatly preferred the next day (or even after lunch that same day) he told us there was a new rule, phones go in a box by the door. But after being confronted the second I got out of the bathroom and being accused of time theft, I decided it was time to look for my next job. (Well... that, plus his being at least a month behind on paying us fairly regularly.) I assume many here will think my reaction was purely that of an emotional millennial, but if your employees are millennials as well I hope this example can be instructive.

@Kevin - NO idea how your website URL is listed on my post, as I didn't type it in. My apologies

What gets lost in these discussions is the fact that cell phone usage is often an addiction. It's a generational shift for sure, but it's not as simple as these kids don't want to work. Social media companies invest lots of time and money into how to manipulate the brain to keep someone hooked on their site. Over time this alters the way the brain functions and affects concentration among other things. I don't know the best way to tackle this problem, however I do think it helps to understand the underlying issues.

It is a generational thing and I think it will continue to get worse.
I am not sure what the answer is? My own kids drive me crazy sometimes.
I was wondering about a system to take away the signal while in the work area, every time I go into a Home Depot store my signal on my phone drops way down, I imagine in Home Depot it is the type of building construction and the size of the building.
I like what puzzleman said about amount of production in a day, when I was young I worked as a cribber, the boss would pay us piecework to strip the basements before shift in the morning, we would work our tails off and make $50 plus dollars an hour and then at start of shift we would go back to $7.50 per hour, wow I must be really old. Maybe some kind of monitory incentive through out the day to help them keep their phones in there pocket.
I am not sure how many employees you have, but I had a group of coworkers who would gather for dinner or something and they made a rule of no cel phones while together, they would shame and police each other by saying if you went on your phone you had to buy dessert, or something like that. They did have a rule if it was a spouse or significant other phoning you could answer in case of emergencies.
Anyways it a problem that somehow needs to be rectified, it is like the smoke breaks of the past, I knew a couple guys who bought cigarettes and kept them in there pocket , but never lit them, they said it was unfair how many breaks the smokers took.
Anyways sorry for the length. Good luck.

I think it would be much easier to tackle the problem before it becomes an issue, i.e. at the time of a job interview. Before you accept new employees and before they accept the position make sure all shop rules are known to them upfront.
That way, when they accept the position they agree to those rules upfront, so it should be easier to maintain the discipline from the start, rather than to try establish a new one, once the chaos has already overtaken the place.

I would get one of those metal wardrobe cabinets for each employee (where they can store their personal stuff, including phones, rings, bracelets, keys, wrist watches, and whatever else they bring to the shop with them) and make sure each one has a sticker at the inside of the door with 'Shop rules' printed on it (including "Leave your phone here"), and also wall posters with those same rules at shop's walls.
(Make sure the rules are actually printed in color on high quality glossy paper; somehow I find those work much better than handwritten notes on 20 lb printing paper)

Most workers need to be regularly reminded of work ethics.

I have a friend who works in a mattress factory, and most of the workers have been working there 5-15 years, and yet they still need cameras at each position to remind them that somebody is always watching them to make sure that they utilize their working time to actually work.

The ages of people working in my shop, including me.

39
44
50
62

I'm stupid lucky, my guys are paying attention to their phones, but not in any significant manner. One doesn't even bring it in the building. So I don't stress about it. I'm also the one who's probably on the phone the most, but I'm looking at emails answering texts from the field, that sort of thing. 95% of it is work related.

I've had a couple men though that thought taking a twenty minute dump was a thing. My solution, no lock on the bathroom door and a little shelf outside of the bathroom door. Taking a crap becomes more urgent if you think somebody will walk in by accident, and if the employee is a problem, putting your phone on the shelf is a requirement to bathroom use.

I don't know what the solution is with younger people. A generation raised with no failure has no humility or shame when it comes to not doing things correctly. That's not just phones, that mentality spreads through every aspect of everything they do.

I did finish this post sitting on the

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Brogger for the win..
No lock, and no phones allowed in the bathroom. Priceless first foray.

I wish beyond belief I could establish an older workforce (with the older work ethic). Easier said than done and coupled with the endless "what you need to do is..". But I would much rather take some engaged input as opposed to complacency.

I had long thought that a female workforce would be a good counter to the typical shop hire. No bravado (unless you land on a....), no "know-it-all-ness", a wide open receptivity to learning,.. works phenomenally when you can find them but about as hard to maintain with societal BS (husband working and kids and so on).

It wont effect me likely, but having/hiring an older workforce is only a temporary measure as they will move on to the better times and are a mere deferment of things to come.

Going for "Best Old Guy Rant About Those Damn Phones":

Endorphins. That is what those young addicts want - and apparently get. And they are addicts. As our society moves towards full addiction, all the time, endorphin management certainly will come under the purview of the shop manager. You may need a larger shelf....

What several of you describe is a shop full of addicts, all making endorphins flow. You enable them by allowing access to the phone. Once you look at it that way, does your desire to modify behavior change? Can you change the way people source their addiction?

The entire society has been transformed by cell phone marketers for profit. We drive like drunks when on the phone, killing almost as many as a pandemic, but accept that for some reason.

Why? Because we are addicts and very slow to judge another with the same addiction. This is addiction sociology - the behavior of addicts in social situations. We are slow to recognize it as a true addiction because it is not a drug per se, but an electronic device.

What would it take to jam phone signals in the shop? Don't know but am guessing it's possible. Seems like a reasonable way of eliminating the problem.

I noticed when ever I'm near a McDonalds my phone doesn't work, it must be possible to jam the signal.

Overall I would just focus on what is getting done. I like what Puzzleman said

Jamming is illegal.

We had a toilet seat get stained blue and we could never figure out what it was, it was a guy sitting on the toilet in his jeans, not going.

You probably can ask if they have a medical issue if they have to go real frequent and are there for long times.

Remind them of company policy.

A-

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