an up-coming job will be my first using pigmented CV . will be using Chemcraft Plasticolor . I've read the TDS , and understand the basic process . Their does seem to be a few different options though , and was curious about which schedules most of you folks use . 1 coat primer / 1 coat top coat ? 1 primer / 2 top coats ? anyone skip primer altogether ?
one other concern with tinted CV is grain showing through . I was checking out some cabs in a $ 800,000 home with solid colored cabinets . I noticed in the utilitary area a couple doors with visible grain shadowing through the finish coats . my client stated that is unacceptable....no grain visible at all is what she wants . is the grain bleed through common ? avoidable ?
From contributor Le
Depends on what you mean by grain showing. If you mean the pore holes then that can be filled. If you mean the grain pattern that's harder to hide.
I'm not using your product, but this is what I do for a nice filled finish. First on painted goods my usual go to is soft maple and MDF if there are panels involved.
2 coats of primer. Minimal thinning, 1st coat is sprayed at full mill rating. Let it dry fully so it powders nicely while scuffing. I use 220 grit and sand back hard. Usually areas become transparent.
2nd coat is the same, heavy, max mil rating. Again let if fully dry so it sands nice. This times scuff with 320 grit. Sand anything that looks like it has any grain telegraphing, the rest just sand lightly.
then two coats of topcoat, scuffing with 320 grit pretty hard to get it flat. Looking at it with a low angle raking light to see any indentations of grain or pores. Sand these areas a little harder to flatten.
Last coat is a medium mil thickness, no need to go heavy, things should be pretty flat. When dry lift a door or smaller pc up to the light and keep your eye low as you look at a light. The reflection should be very flat and mirror like.
From contributor Ma
Jimmy,
If you follow Leo's advice, you will have good results.I will add that I would recommend getting some reducer for the plasticolor, I used 10-15% for the last coat to get it to lay nice, I found the plasticolor to be a little thick.If you haven't already bought the plasticolor, I would recommend using Chemlife 24 instead, it's more durable, and has a 24hr.pot life.I would also plan on reducing the Chemlife 24 if you end up going that route.
From contributor ji
Leo.....it looked like the grain was "telegraphing" through the finish coats . not sure if it could be felt , as the doors were high up .
what causes this ? primer coats too light ?
certain woods more prone to show this ? some wood/ substrate require 2 primer coats while others require only one ?
does it show up immediately ? or weeks later as the coating shrinks back ?
Max.....I'll get the reducer like you advised . and I'll take a look at the Chemlife . my supplier doesnt seem to carry the full line , so I may be stuck with which ever they carry . a while back I asked about the catalyst for Chemguard , and they looked at me like the mothership was departing and I'd better get going or Im gonna miss it .
the rep also mentioned that I shouldnt worry about sand throughs . do you all agree with that statement ?
From contributor ke
I always use 2 coats of primer. ALWAYS. The first one will more than likely have some burn thru. I sand the first coat very aggressively to get rid of any imperfections. Then i dilute my second coat 20% so it lays down nice. A light scuff and its ready for paint.
I wouldnt rely on dudes advice to not worry about burn thrus.. Paint ready means no wood showing. Just smooth primer.
From contributor Le
Yes, certain woods are more prone to this. Woods with a pronounce grain will be tougher to tame.
Also if you just have a random orbit sander it will be much tougher to suppress the grain. The softer areas of the wood will get eaten up more than the harder areas and then that will telegraph through.
The best way is to run it through a wide belt sander and do a small bit of RO sanding, just enough to get rid of scratches. Or use as much MDF as you can, it has no grain.
Sanding the coatings is how you level out the grain, lots of work, charge accordingly if you are use to a light scuff and spray.
From contributor Ji
Jimmy,
I just used the same product for the first time with good results. Leo is right on with steps.
Soft maple was the wood. The color was a dove grey.
1. Two coats of primer.
2. Two top coats of dove grey.
3. One final coat of clear.
Remember to let the coats dry good between spraying.
Good luck.
From contributor ji
o.k. , got it .
2 primers and 2 pigmented coats .
sand aggressively with 220 between primer coats .
sand with 320 between the rest of the coats .
let dry thoroughly between coats . never a problem here . haste makes waste .
sounds like the cab doors will be soft maple ; frame and flat panel .
just found out theres passage doors also , to be done in solid white ; also soft maple . is pigmented CV still a better alternative than paint for such an application ?
sounds as though a 4 step pigmented process will be about 30% to 40% more labor intensive than stain\CV\CV . sound about right ?
From contributor Le
Ya, closer to 40%
From contributor Ad
Leo is spot on.
If you want a class A finish. You spray the 1st primer coat. It shows all the defects. You fill the defects and sand the first coat and defects at the same time. You have now taken off 50% of the primer. Next you spray a 2nd coat of primer to bury the differences in hardness between the sanded primer, filler and exposed wood.
The key to prevent telegraphing is to smooth it out and bury it. The topcoats magnify problems, the primer can hide them if applied properly.
From contributor Ma
I think it's funny sometimes when you hear a customer say "we will just go with a painted finish since it's easier and cheaper".
From contributor Le
That's because in their mind you are using a brush with latex. They don't realize we aren't "painting" we are finishing. There is a huge difference between the two. And paint generally shows the defects while stain has a more hiding effect (usually).
If they just want and IKEA paint grade job it's easy. Once coat of primer, light scuff and one coat of color, done.
From contributor ji
so what is the best product when an actual paint is in order....such as base trim , window casing , etc in solid colors ?
Ive been asked a couple times in the past if I do this kind of work , but didnt pursue it for lack of equipment . now Im set up to do it , and wouldnt mind at all .
From contributor Ri
For white primer I also like to use 3M Powdered Guide Coat to make sure I see all the defects. It is a carbon black powder that you wipe into all the low spots and then you can visually see when your panel is perfectly flat.
From contributor Ad
Rick,
Thanks. That is another great 3m product.
I remember when fairing boat hulls we would tint the first of the primer coats to show depth to prevent unfairing and to find the high and lows.
From contributor Ma
Jimmy,
I would use whatever paint the job site painter is comfortable using.After the base/casing is installed, it will need to be filled (miters and nail holes), then painted over again.Some builders prefer to just have it primed prior to install, others want a coat of paint on, to save the painter an extra step.Everyone seems to have their own opinion, it's just one of those things you have to coordinate with everyone involved.
From contributor ej
Jimmy - Essex Coatings prefinishes panels with both clear and white SuperSeal. The white will give you full hide. SuperSealed panels will save you the cost and labor of applying multiple coats of sealer. We apply SuperSeal to any type of board or veneer. The white is used extensively for critical solid color matches, the clear is sufficient for most applications. Be happy to send you samples for testing.
From contributor ji
bid was accepted . its possible I may have shorted myself a bit , but thats O.K. for now . its a small part of a larger project .
From contributor ji
and thanks to all who offered guidance . very much appreciated .
