Question
I am considering purchasing a new 20" jointer and have narrowed my choices down to the Griggio 510 and SAC. (I really want the Martin but can't drop that much right now.)
Wondering if anyone is using these machines and the differences/advantages of either one. It is my understanding that they are comparable in price, and I would obviously like the best for my money. Not particularly interested in used machines.
Forum Responses
(Solid Wood Machining Forum)
From contributor M:
Just out of curiosity, how much does the SAC and the Griggio cost? If you're at 10K for either one of them, do your best to find another 6K and get the Martin. Having said that, I have a 12" SAC I bought new 5 years ago and it's been a dependable jointer. The designers made it very easy to replace the bearings for the head if the need were to arise. So that's a plus for the SAC. I didn't think that SAC had any US dealers any longer. Who carries those machines?
Plus, if you ever have had to use one of these big machines all day, they really beat you up. Wide stock means you have to bend over farther and it will wear you down. I use mine plenty, but smaller stock always get run on a smaller machine. Just something to think about.
You should check with Carl at Martin if you didn’t already. Prices might not be that high. The dollar is gaining a little. If you look at specs for all the machines Martin will always have a little more weight, table length, etc. And will work right the first time.
Griggio 530 jointers, SAC and the SCM Invincible line are all decent machines. I was recently looking at shapers with bead recovery saws in Italy. I felt Griggio had a little better fit and finish and engineering than SAC, but they were both better than most of the other Italian brands. The SCM Invincible line has some impressive features and engineering. Their prices are just as much or approaching Martin.
Thanks also for the insight on the quality of Griggio vs others. I was leaning that way but will revisit Martin for the latest pricing. I always try to get the best equipment possible - even when it stretches the budget at first. It has always paid off in ease of use and reliability.
I think once you get into the dollars associated with a Martin jointer you have to take a step back and ask if you would be better off with a used 4 head molder with straightening table.
The same argument can be applied to some of the higher end ELMO table saws. At what point does the limitation stop being the quality of the equipment and become the way the equipment processes material (e.g. sliding table saw versus beam panel saw)?
I recently did a very involved time study for the business taking into consideration the work we have done for the past 5 years, which of that work was most lucrative for the company, and what we wanted to pursue more of. When all of that was taken into account, I found that what I thought was the first piece of equipment I needed to upgrade (the edgebander) was actually the last piece of equipment I should put any money into.
My advice is to rethink the expensive jointer completely.
And in terms of quality of cut, Tersa heads: Invariably the wood gets two passes on the planer because the powerfed cut of the planer is far smoother at the front and back of the board than any hand fed cut. So as long as a jointer can take the cup and bow out of the board width you use you probably have all you need.
One poster mentioned you need to use a high end jointer 8 hours per day to justify owning one. I disagree with qualifying any machine purchase like that. I figure the S4S machine, 3 head wide belt, numeric shaper and SLR are the big bread winners in our shop, but a lot of other machines are just as important to the process even though they don’t run much.
We recently have been addressing our waste, mainly with walnut (we only ship the straight mouldings and eat the rest) for our high end customers. Low and behold what we found was ripping the blanks from a rough board and taking the time to flatten and straighten them on the jointer and then planing them oversized for the moulder has given us about a 35-40 percent increase in the mouldings to keep. So sometimes you have to ask yourself what's more important - time or materials?
I too thought that I could never afford or justify having a moulder to do S4S work in a small shop (one man and a helper), but after looking into it, I found they were much more affordable than I thought. After I got it into my shop, I kept saying to myself I should have done this 10 years ago. Don't rule one out too fast. The ROI is much faster than you might imagine. I'm with contributor J - 90% of my stock goes through the moulder, but the jointer is still essential.
I don't have a Martin jointer, though I hope to some day, but I do have their saw. After you get your first piece, you'll be spoiled for life. I mentioned my SAC jointer in an earlier post, and it's been a good machine, but with all things Italian you still have to go back and fiddle with something to keep it running true. That's always the tradeoff when one is trying to save a buck. I couldn't afford the Martin when I bought it and therefore have no regrets.
