Looking for some insight into purchasing our first cnc. We have looked at Scm, Biesse, Felder, Thermwood , Onsrud and Komo. Been to a few shops to see the Scm Biesse and Onsrud in action, so far the Biesse has impressed me above all the others. We currently have machines in our shop from Scm, Biesse and Scm, Been happy with service that we have received from all the companies. Looking for a little feedback about the limitations of these brands. Currently we use Kcdw for our software and will step up to their cnc package and also there door and drawer program. The thermwood and the Komo are both at the high end of the pricing where all the others are in the same ballpark. Looking for a little advice from guys who operate these cnc's
From contributor Pd
Might help if you tell us which exact machines you're looking at for each brand. They all have their strengths and weaknesses and a lot of them are model dependent.
From contributor Pa
We bought a new SCM Pratix N15. Installed in Feb. When it works it's great. But I've been having issues. I've cut 6 sheets in the last day and a half. Been on tech support most of the time.
From contributor ke
Sorry I should have told you we are looking at the Thermwood cabinet43 Scm Pratix S Biesse Skil 1224 Felder H08 13.25 P, Onsrud Mate and the Komo Mach 1, Sorry to hear about your Scm that's not good. Nothing worse than have something new not working properly. That's exactly what we don"t want to have happen.
From contributor Jo
I bought a Busellato Easy Jet 512 (which is the exact same machine as the Pratix S- same assembly line just has different sheet metal and stickers) back in 09/14. It wasn't running until 12/14 because of installation issues. The spindle went out on it right after they had finished the install and they had to spend a long time fixing that. Customer service from SCM was pretty bad. They really didn't care. We run the machine A LOT. It performs well even though once in a blue moon it gets a little quirky- we just shut it down and reboot. Overall, I recommend the machine but make sure you work something out where they don't get paid until it's FULLY installed. If you buy the Pratix feel free to message me and I'd be glad to help.
From contributor ca
We are running a Biesse @ 800 IPM and have few problems. Problems for us are boiled down to same basic problem- lack of maint. Yes. Guys are performing maint and forget to lube the spindle fingers or clean and spray a lubricant on the tool holders and we have a timeout in a tool change because a tool holder won't release fast enough.
We just got a quote on the SKIL 5x12 with sweeper arm.
We have 4 Biesse machines. Edgebander, Elix Doweller, Rover 30 Flat Table and Rover 321 Rail and Pod. Good stuff and good support.
From contributor Pd
I will echo John's post on our Pratix S. The service has been less than stellar. Not horrible, but not great. I actually spoke with John before his purchase and let him know that our training was somewhat of a joke. The guy they sent had "seen" my machine once before at a tradeshow. The machine itself has a few quirks, but I think that most machines do and we're still trying to figure it all out - it's our 1st CNC. I got a pretty smoking deal on the machine, so I can't complain too much.
I considered the Omnitech, but actually visited with Stefan and was steered away.
I also considered the Biesse Klever. The Pratix had more options though and for some reason, it being made in Italy rather than India made me feel better. The Skil is also made in India, but is a much more robust machine than the Klever and Pratix.
If I could have afforded it, I likely would have gone with Onsrud or Thermwood. Good ol' USA machines that are built like tanks. Unfortunately the price tags were significantly higher.
I'll also echo many other posts here in saying that I'm glad I got the 12' table. We've used it a lot more than I ever expected.
From contributor St
I have an omni-tech cnc router. I have not had good luck with their tech support or my machine. I have had it for about 3 years now and I have had to replace: six linear guide way carriages, three pneumatic pop up pins, the z axis homing sensor, and now the z axis servo motor.
When working with tech support they have at times not even responded to my emails, which warranted a follow up email to receive a response, sometimes delayed by up to a week. The salesman David has admitted to me that my machine model was a "problem model". Knowing this it is my opinion that they would work a little harder to help me with my problems with my machine and would understand more my frustrations when dealing with down time due to these problems. Feel free to contact me with any questions.
From contributor ca
I have an omni-tech cnc router. I have not had good luck with their tech support or my machine. I have had it for about 3 years now and I have had to replace: six linear guide way carriages, three pneumatic pop up pins,
Question ? Does the machine have an Autolube sustem ?
Question ? Are you running dry air ? Is the air going through a dryer and then you are running through a coelescing filter for remaining oil out of the air ?
the z axis homing sensor, and now the z axis servo motor.
Question ? Have yo made sure the building electrical system is properly grounded and all the lugs are tight in you electrical panel @ the mains, circuit breaker and the service diconnect ? Also, have you checked the utility side of the service ?
When working with tech support they have at times not even responded to my emails, which warranted a follow up email to receive a response, sometimes delayed by up to a week. The salesman David has admitted to me that my machine model was a "problem model".
Man, I am sorry to hear this, but we are all greatful for sharing this experience.
Knowing this it is my opinion that they would work a little harder to help me with my problems with my machine and would understand more my frustrations when dealing with down time due to these problems.
No, I don't think they honestly care. And, that is sad. This rules out any Omnitech purchases for us.
Thanks
From contributor ke
Thanks for the responses. This is exactly the feedback I was after and helps weed out some of the machines we were looking at. Its unfortunate to hear about the poor service some of you have received. Service is a big part of the industry we are in. I know we provide great service to our present and former customers, my wife says maybe to much free service, but that being said we always have lots of repeat clients. I have learned over the years bad word travels a lot faster and further than good word. Do quality work and you will always have lots of it. Also the management of these companies read these boards. Had a call from our Thermwood rep the day after I posted the question. I had also sent a request from Weeke to contact me but never heard back from them until this was posted and we meet with them tomorrow. Will keep you updated on how we make out.
From contributor Ke
We are running a Multicam 3000 5x12 for the last 5 yrs. This is our second Multicam, we just outgrew our first one which was 15 yrs old. We do nested based and average 50-60 sheets a day of mixed material, plywood and particle bd. In the last 5 yrs on this new machine I have had 2 issues. First was 2 yrs ago which was a sensor that tech walked me through replacing. Was down 2 days only. Second issue was 2 weeks ago which required and onsite tech as they had never seen the issue prior. All indications was a servo drive failure but it ended up being a 46$ gas counter strut which had failed. Tech said he had never seen one fail in his 11 yrs. New strut and back up to running. Granted that getting hold of tech support can be an issue from what others have said but both times I have needed them its been pretty prompt.
From contributor Ma
Take a look into Freedom Machine Tool and Diversified Machine Systems. I am a technician for the DMS machines and they are terrific. They are in the same price range as a Thermwood or Onsrud. DMS machines are completely built and assembled in Colorado Springs, CO and are All-American machines. We have MANY machines in the aerospace industry along with woodworkers contracted by aerospace companies such as Gulfstream and Boeing. We have machines all over the country and have a great relationship with our customers. If you would like to take a look at one of our machines in action just let me know and shoot me an email. I linked a video below to show you an example of our machine's capability and smoothness. The third video down is a woodworking demonstration. We also make 4th axis machines. Send me an email at DMSCNCS@gmail.com and I can get you a lot more information! Hope you find the machine you are looking for!
http://www.dmscncrouters.com/videos/
From contributor Br
following the previous responder, I have a Freedom Machine Tool (subsiduary of DMS) 5' X 10' cnc router. I couldn't be happier with this machine but especially the company customer service. these guys go out of their way to make sure you are happy. I had a minor issue that was solved over the phone, but even though they didn't have too, they sent their east coast rep by to go over the machine. I bought this machine after going to see one in Mass (I'm in CT), the cabinetmaker that I went to see sold me on the machine. You won't regret working with these guys. Definately customer oriented and I feel I got a bargain compare to everything else I looked at out there. Good luck in your search.
Brian
From contributor Ma
Brian, I really appreciate the kind words. We try very hard to make sure every costumer gets the perfect machine and customer service that was paid for. I take a lot of pride in these machines and really do love working with them. As I said above I any information you could possibly want on DMS as well as FMT machines and would be happy to discuss options with anyone. Just shoot me an email anytime and Brian, feel free to take my email down as well if you ever have any concerns or problems with your machine. DMSCNCS@gmail.com
From contributor B.
If I were replacing my CNT 900 router I'd be looking at three primary issues as I did my research.
1) How does the machine fit into our processes......obvious importance.
2) Customer service.....as so thoroughly pointed out in many of the above posts.
3) A company that makes CNC routers and ONLY CNC routers. Some of the brands you mention make a CNC router in order to broaden their product line. When you buy from those mega-companies you run the risk of the CNC division being "just another division" of the larger corporation. This can lead to some of the issues mentioned above (although they can certainly happen with any size and type of manufacturer).
When you buy from a CNC only manufacturer their reputation and profits depend solely upon the positive results achieved by their only customers......CNC owners. I personally believe this increases the likelihood of better customer service.
BH Davis
From contributor To
Please allow me to add a new name to your investigation. Have a look at www.newcnc.com
All the prices are published online, so there no sales run around.
There is also a good article on woodworking network
From contributor Ph
note to self.. when looking for a machine this may not be the best place to find good unbiased opinions. Reading these replies makes me think salesman sit on this thread waiting for this question and log in under multiple names.
Reading your initial post makes it sound like your mind was made up already and just needed to type it out.
If you are still looking check everyone out you are comfortable with. find a company that will be with you for the long haul. ask area companies their history with that brand and believe what you read on this site very carefully.
From contributor De
Biesse. Going on 10 years with my machine.first 4 years no problems that required parts, all minor issues we created on our own solved with help of tech support.
first issue that required part was a breaking resistor, $35 buck plus next day air shipping. Vacuum pump vanes, normal wear part. 2 years ago we had a cable tie break and pull the harness on the z axis motor. About 12 hours with tech support and down 3 days $3500 bucks. Last year issue on spindle lock sensor not reading casuing error. Sent spindle out and had rebuilt. $3500 bucks. 2 sensor leads wore out $50 bucks. Thats it 10 years and thousands of sheets run with no problems and I always get a call back when I needed it even on weekends and never needed a tech onsite. Others might be as good but my next machine will be a Biesse, no need to shop around.
From contributor ca
Derreck-
Please post "Youtube" video on time study from Screen to Machine.
There are some people on this site that do not care what brand you buy, and are not salesmen in disguise, but care enough to post solutions and help. Derreck is one of them. So am I.
When you have problems, post them because there are things that have happened to us, that are common, like sensors moving on a dust collection shroud that we have addressed, that we will tell others to check because we understand how frustrating it is to stand around and lose production.
In the 11 years we (my shop) have owned Biesse products, I can say we have been down 6 times and no longer than 3 days in a row. Even had a returned call @ 12 midnight on a Saturday for tech support.
I am sure there are others that have KOMO's, SCMI's, Andersons, etc that have had good success, but look @ the company and go visit the manufacturer and go see a router run that you would like to see.
From contributor De
Cabinetmaker this video of nested base doors vs manual drilling
From contributor FO
Have you considered other CNC router machine manufacturers? Jinan FORSUN CNC Machinery Co., Ltd.,one of the professional Wood CNC Router manufacturers and suppliers in China, has been focusing on providing high-quality CNC Router Machines and solutions for worldwide customers for 20 years.
